Yeah:

“The most hurtful thing (Trump) said, which is absolutely untrue, is he called me a traitor, and that is so extremely wrong,” Greene said, “and those are the types of words used that can radicalize people against me and put my life in danger.”

Despite her vitriol having put tons of other peoples’ lives or at lest livelihoods in danger, she seems to want to change when it’s aimed at her.

fucking traitor (to the US).

Not just the primaries! My city is pretty purple. We tend to vote republican by a slim majority in larger races (think 51/49), but in the mayor and city council race that just happened, the republican mayor won at like 66/33. Vote every chance or you cede your power to the people who do.

The fix is to start local. Bob’s right: that school PTO experience will be on the candidate’s bio when they run for mayor, even if they are the karen-est karen, and it will sway a few people. That ® mayor has power over a huge amount of how the city is run and many of the things people are locally unhappy with are a direct result of them electing a rich asshole. If we elect Dems locally, we might be able to sway people to our side when the situation gets better under our leadership.

We individuals have the power but it’s got a bit of a lag-time to it. Become informed about how the DNC structure works (best done by joining your local precinct, even if you do nothing more than joining a few meetings). The precincts vote for who runs the county, the counties vote for who runs the state, the states vote for the nation and it’s all based on head-count of participants: a large precinct by population might only have a relative few people engaged and will not have as large an impact when voting in upstream elections. If we’re mad at DNC leadership or the options we have for congress/president, the fix is to ensure people at the precinct-level are the right ones.

This comment is a direct response to anyone saying “both sides”, “dem’s are still corporate shills”, or similar defeatist comments. The “spineless dems” currently have power at the top of the party, but we can fix that. It will take work. It will require time, and that time will be hard to justify with little immediate result. This is the battle we need to fight right now, though. It just needs to be constant and not only complaining online and voting every 2-4 years.

While I believe that this is accurate, as a broad stroke and specifically of the DNC itself, any individual democratic politician is not necessarily corrupt and playing a foil. Especially as you get more and more local.

Don’t let cynicism prevent you from voting for a local candidate for mayor or city council, for example. It’ll take time to see if Mamdani is what he claims to be, but it’s not unreasonable for someone who is mad at the current situation to run for office with a real intent to improve things.

The way we fix things is by getting the local orgs to throw their weight around. Those precinct orgs get votes in the district and district vote in state and state vote nationally. If you’re mad right now or were mad in 2020, then get involved. Find your local democratic organization and become the change. Under our Representative Democracy, we don’t always directly elect our leadership, but we do get to elect the people that elect the people that elect the people… Gotta start at the bottom and ensure that first step has our values in mind. Right now, too many people only get involved every 2-4 years and are mad at the results.

“President” and “Senator” are important titles, but so is “County Chair”. Doing this and pushing the Democratic party further left will be more effective than sending a protest vote for a third party every 4 years, but you can do both.

And here I will not disagree with you that the accuracy doesn’t matter right now, and I’m not missing the point. I see how we on the left are losing the “cultural war,” but I’m not sure that turning to propaganda with blatant lies or half truths is going to work.

If I saw an advert for my local statesman that claimed that their republican opponent eats babies, it wouldn’t change how I vote, but it would diminish my fervor for voting for them. The end-game of this propaganda war is that nobody pays attention at all, since it can’t be trusted, or that everyone believes everything they see regardless of it’s merit. Obviously there is a spectrum, and you can’t fool all of the people all of the time, but I don’t think aiming for that lowest common denominator is the way to go.

Calling back to my previous post, you don’t seem like a ‘fence-sitting lefty’ to me. You come across as a cranky lefty like myself. I know I don’t have a solution to this issue of messaging and you think you have yours. I do disagree that it would be better to meme harder at the expense of truth, but we’re broadly on the same side and have the same goals.

I’m just curious at this point: What would your memes look like? I’m such a sucker for accuracy that all I can come up with are things like: “Republicans could end the government shutdown at any point: They have the majority and can change the rules whenever they want, but they can’t even come to an agreement amongst themselves about how hard to fuck you over”, or “You can’t have informed voters if they can’t read [temple-tap]” and I don’t think those would sell.

The firehose of bullshit falsehood plus, A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

This isn’t that the left has failed to understand, this is that the left actually values accuracy where the right doesn’t.

“They’re eating the dogs!” he said, just making shit up. Proving that they are not, in fact, eating dogs requires a bit of work. The right works on ‘feels’ and their ‘guts’ where the left values truth and reality. It’s easy to make something up as a meme and just post it, with no intent to ever defend it. Some amount of people will see it and believe it’s true.

A thing that separates left and right is that we are skeptical and require proof before we believe.

Oh so good information on the left must be searched while good information on the right is actively searching for me?

[Emphasis mine.]

I would strongly disagree with the idea that the right is putting out “good information.” I will agree that they are searching for gullible people like you. In this thread alone, we have the most powerful people on the right stating the shutdown is caused by the dems. It took an intern 10 minutes to print a “the democrat shutdown” sign, but takes significantly longer to write an article that describes why that isn’t accurate, and that article won’t be read by the people who need to see it. Falling to their level and making a ‘the republican shutdown’ sign and holding a press conference with it just enforces the ‘both sides’ narrative that only discourages people from voting.

I don’t have a solution, but it certainly isn’t “meme harder”. It’s more like “encourage critical thinking and expect people to be informed before voting”. I’ll even put out a point: Democratic leadership wants to encourage education by making it affordable to everyone while republican leadership constantly pushes to de-fund teachers, schools, and programs that would let the poors into college. I could back that up with examples and proof, but it would take that time I’m talking about, go looking for counterpoints instead and spend your own time making yourself better.

donald trump famously said, “I love the poorly educated”. I don’t think he loves them because they are amazing people, or that he wants to take care of them. He loves them because they are rubes and marks and he is a con-man.

This is your wake-up call. There is no such thing as a ‘fence-sitting lefty’. You are either:

• ignorant and can be shown how to think for yourself. At which point you also get angry and become a real lefty.
• ignorant and intentionally staying that way – good for you, I also want to just bury my head in the sand sometimes. Please don’t vote republican because their meme game is better.
• a saboteur or bad-faith actor claiming to be left while actually holding right-wing views and trying to sow discord to weaken your political opponents.

I’m a little confused.

You’re a fence-sitting-lefty?

Without being rude… what behavior on the right are you in favor of? Is it the reduction of rights for literally every minority? Is it the clearly stated planned process in Project 2025 that is being implemented? Is it tariffs, to punish our “trade partners” (read: farmers, citizens, small businesses)? Do you think trans people are not human?

I’m cranky, clearly, but honestly looking for some insight. What makes you not a staunch lefty? I don’t think an informed lefty can possibly be fence-sitting; the political landscape is just so polarized and the right is just trashing everything they can get their hands on.

If you’re just uninformed and not paying attention, then you need to start looking around. There are tons of left memes right here, so if you’re not seeing them, then you’re not looking. If you’re seeing the right-leaning memes more, then check your sources and biases.

We can learn a few things from the French. They seem to have good ideas about how to protest for sure.

A question: How do you think you get to the point where the quiet majority feels confident enough to show up in force? To ‘disrupt the system’?

We Americans, by our own devices, have become a very insular people. We have social media, which puts us all in our little bubbles and cellphones, which distract us from the actual people around us. We sit in despair about rising prices and the tragedies inflicted on ourselves or our neighbors, our world. We watch our rights get eroded.

These protests are a symbol that we are not alone. That there are others out there that are also mad. These protests burst the bubble that technology has trapped us in. Read through the comments with this in mind: How many people were surprised at the turnout being larger than expected. And for each of those, there’s a comment indicating it could be larger. As we come to terms with how many allies we have, we gain collective power. Sure, we have it now, but we’re not willing to wield it yet. Building the confidence that you will be one among many is the key to wielding that power. Ten people protesting will be intimidated by the local police. Ten thousand will intimidate the police instead. Ten million will intimidate the government.

I write actual responses to throwaway comments all the time. I don’t do this for Auli or Fresh, I do this for those that might agree with you on the surface. This protest was not intended to make immediate change. It was intended to build pressure, to unite the people and to show support for the cause. When we show up and make a scene, we provide a shield for those who are not as willing to be in front to join in. When they join in, we grow and are able to pull in even more. Every thumbs-up from a car is someone who is on our side, but due to life commitments or fear did not attend… this time.

Edit: Followup: If you want faster change… do it. What’s your idea? Build a movement and implement or shut the fuck up. You might find that it’s hard to find other people willing to risk their safety and arrest to block a street, or to risk losing their job to strike with only a few people involved. When we have the numbers to make the system fear what we could do, we will win, even if we never have to do it.

I’m going to expand on TrickDacy’s comment:

Every both sideser is either extraordinarily lazy or a closeted right winger

and instead state: It is OKAY to be mad at democratic politicians. Especially the spineless ones we have an abundance of right now. And there is certainly some rage we can all aim at the DNC as an organization, which appears to be trying to hamstring any actually progressive candidates.

But there really isn’t a competition in the race for ‘who is most evil’ between D and R. One side is at least appearing to fight for worker rights, healthcare, equality, peace and other progressive/liberal goals. The other side is actively dismantling the government… like actively and they told us they were going to. There’s no both sides here.

So, by ‘closeted right winger’, what I think Trick means is that anyone boldly claiming ‘both sides’ falls into one of a few categories:

• lazy: Doesn’t “do politics” and gets their news from tiktok, fox, cnn, their buddy at work, and doesn’t put in the critical thinking to make their own decisions. “Both Sides” lets them get away with not caring enough and just moving on with life.
• gullible: Believes they are thinking critically, but are swayed by media, social or conventional, into thinking that all politicians are shit, and if one is corrupt then they all are.
• malicious: Knows they are being disingenuous, but knows the other categories exist. If they claim ‘both sides’ are doing something, then when one side actually gets caught doing it, the public just kinda shrugs it off. This also depresses voter turnout in general, because of the lazy group.

So. What is your purpose in your post. Are you lazy, and just know that democrats also suck, but want to sound smart on the internet? Are you gullible, and really think that democrats would be just as bad if they had power? Or are you malicious, and trying to make the people that would otherwise “do politics” give up and become lazy?

If you are not trying to make people give up, STOP. There is no both sides. There is the fascist, authoritarian, oligarchic, billionaire side, and then there are the people. If you want to make a real difference and move the needle, then the time is now, but it’s not in a forum post saying ‘both sides are bad.’ It’s going to be in your local democratic organization, trying to find candidates to run for local or regional offices and then supporting them. The people THERE are definitely on our side, since they are just us. And if we can build strong networks THERE, then we can push people into the national stage who will also fight for us.

The democrats who act like republicans need a strong local network to primary them. Be the change you want to see.

This really is a problem, and is why we have so much discord here. This is not the fault of the people using the accurate language, but they do need to be aware of how many politically descriptive words have different meanings to the average person.

Like you, I misused liberal until recently. I considered it the opposite of conservative, as in the US political parties. I was, therefore, often upset when a comment disparaged liberals. I identified with that label, but I am not a Liberal the way it is often used here.

People using these terms correctly need to have patience, instead of scorn, with those of us who are not (yet) as informed.

“Blue no matter who” is a response to the republicans who just fall in line and vote for any ®. This is a way to suggest that anyone running as a democrat is better than someone running as a republican. Sure, a “DINO” or closet fascist is not a great option, but an out fascist is likely worse.

‘Blue no matter who’ is also an easy way to guide less-informed voters: fill in the circle, check the box, etc, next to the (D).

The real work, though, needs to happen earlier. This is where we address fraudsters. Be involved in primaries and kick these assholes out of office if they don’t live up. Find candidates who will actually work for us and get them on the ballot – and then the ‘blue no matter who’ will get them votes from the people who are not paying as much attention.

Diminishing the impact of the phrase only hurts our cause. If you see democratic politicians who are not living up, then find people to replace them.

Yeah. The real problem with power is that the people best suited to wield it don’t seek it out.

Running for president should automatically disqualify you…

I love this list of oaths we (collectively) take as part of taking office… However, what I think is missing is that we have no oath-breaker laws – to my knowledge – that punish people for breaking their oaths. The military might be an exception, as there seems to be a penalty for ‘false-swearing,’ but I don’t know how that’s enforced and how objective it is.

Theoretically, oath-breaking is a social issue, and so we’re back on the issue where there are tons of guidelines that imply that we should all behave, and we make people “swear” that they will behave certain ways, with the assumption that if they break those oaths, they will be punished socially – by being primaried if elected, voted out, “sanctioned”, or similar – but these punishments require the society to determine the oath was broken. When that contract is broken and there are enough people who agree that ignoring the oath is acceptable, those oath-breakers have no punishment.

Presidents ignoring the constitution, service-members following orders that are unconstitutional, judges failing to be impartial, etc. The solution is supposed to be ostracism, impeachment… social. But when the social penalties are outweighed by the potential gains, then an oath is just empty words to someone with no morals.

The party of law and order, of family values, of tradition and respect certainly appears to have turned a blind eye to anyone disregarding oaths or promises that they find inconvenient.They preach mightily about how to be good, but are seldom good when they think no one is looking.

I find it funny how most of these oaths end with ‘so help me god.’ Maybe at one time, the rich and powerful feared god’s wrath. They certainly don’t now. As an atheist, I don’t fear it either, but that doesn’t stop me from being kind to others and striving to make the world a better place.

Become more involved. Do you know your mayor?

If you are not helping pick the candidates on the ballot, then you just need to pick the lesser evil. If you want to do more than that, then be part of the decision of WHO ends up on the ballot, because that process has already started.

There’s a significant hurdle to run for even the mayoral office: it doesn’t pay well relative to a corporate job, and doesn’t have the same job security. People can only run for the decision-making positions when they already have enough wealth to be comfortable without a “real job.” Help find or select people with your values and we can take this back.

If you are mad at your options, the solution is not to give up, but to make better options.

It’s almost like you read Lucid’s message, decided to type up a reply, but then missed the fucking point. These establishment dems are only ‘allies on some issues’ because we keep fighting amongst ourselves on what the top priority is instead of getting anything useful done.

Yes, we have “dems” that are not solid on issues we/you/I think are important, but the result is that when we don’t vote for them, the much worse regressive party wins and makes things shittier for everyone.

I do agree that the solution is to get involved. Start local and engage with your local democratic org. Help support or find people to run for office with your opinions, but - and this is crucial - when someone better than a republican is on the ticket, fucking vote for them, even if they are not your perfect politician.

If you are not involved in local org politics, you can use our favorite mantra: vote blue no matter who. By doing so, you are ceding your opinion to the people who have more at stake or are more invested, but at least you are not letting evil win by default.

This. We’ve seen what republicans want to do. We need to stop them and vote ‘not-republican’ when we can before the ability to do so is gone. The problem is we cannot stop there and only vote every 2-4 years for the least-bad option, we need to make better options. “Both sides” is reductive and hides the problem.

Get involved: find and support people who have your views for all offices: city, county, state, federal, maybe even HOA. Most of these are important. If the incumbent is not working for us, we need to fight them and suggest someone better. If the incumbent is unchallenged, then that’s a travesty and they need a primary, if the same party, or an opponent.

For the a while now we’ve seen the ‘left’ chase the ‘center’ and people like OP are mad at this. The solution is not ‘vote blue no matter who’, but that is a bandage to slow the bleeding and will resonate with the less-involved allies we have. The solution is to prove that we are the majority and push our own into leadership roles where they can make things better.

If you’re angry right now, run for office or canvas for someone who is. Being mad, depressed or just bitching online isn’t fixing anything. You can make things better, and it starts with finding a ‘blue’ worth voting for.

As a description of the levels of power I personally have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty

I’m still at ballot box myself.

“Yelling at strangers [on the internet]” is the Soap Box, and while we’re pretty well past that as a country due to social media echo chambers and the like, it’s still useful. If there’s enough social pressure on a given topic, we can change policy. At the very least, being vocal (including online) lets other people know they are not alone.

I believe that we have effectively lost the jury box at this time. The supreme court seems to have abandoned rationality in a variety of cases to-date, and even in a best case, the judicial system works far too slowly compared to how fast new bullshit gets thrown at them by the current executive. Not to mention the cost to an individual average voter to try and sue would be prohibitive. Groups like SPLC and ACLU are helping here, but see point 2 (too slow).

I don’t need to defend myself, but I have voted in every municipal election I’ve been able to since my early twenties in 2004. About the only way I haven’t used my power here is by running myself, but I don’t think I’m qualified for public office and would only siphon money from someone better who might win.

That leaves us with the ammo box. For progressives in solidly blue states, whose votes were counted, but ultimately found irrelevant, this is the next step, hence firebombing tesla dealerships (Can’t find a recent walmart news article, but the idea is still there). In my purple state, I’m in my local precinct org and canvassing, but that doesn’t really help when the margin of victory for your party is like 20%.

I will acknowledge the point that Americans – in general – are apathetic. I have a significant amount of distaste for anyone who says they are ‘not political’ or who didn’t vote in 2024 or earlier. Sometimes though, you get a wake-up call after the fact. Anyone who didn’t vote or voted for trump in 2024, but is now pissed off has been awakened (dare I say, “woke”) and that should be celebrated, not derided. I love the leopards-eating-faces memes, but we really need to be reaching out to these people instead of mocking them. There is now a chink in their ignorance-armor.

You got a lot of anger in responses to your posts in this thread. The ‘in general’ phrase carries a lot of weight, but isn’t all that applicable here. This community is likely to be like me and very involved or at least informed. Phrases like “You are all at fault…” is going to raise hackles, even when clarified by ‘proportional to your share of power that you didn’t use.’

I’m trying to understand this point. I’m in a purple state. By definition, that means that we’re on the cusp of being either democratic EC votes or republican EC votes, as well as senators, governors and other state-level offices.

One of the (minor, but still there) reasons I haven’t moved is because my vote actually matters here. If I moved to a solidly blue state, I would be removing a blue vote and making my current state more red.

One of my largest fears is that we continue sorting all the democratic voters into a small handful of blue states and lock in a permanent minority in government due to how we allocate EC votes and allot power in the Senate.

If anything, we need the people in deeply blue states to migrate out into other places and help push our country towards actual balance. If we took 2% of the 2024 democratic Californians (9m Kamala votes vs 6m Trump, 2% of the 9m is 180k, and we could easily do this several more times) and they moved to a low-population red state like Wyoming, Montana or North Dakota (spot checking 2024 vote counts), they would have no EC impact in California, but would have guaranteed Senate seats and EC votes. They would also have huge power in their new local and state government, since the total republican vote count majority was less than that tiny portion of California.

I know this is a simplistic way of looking at the numbers and not the humans, but blaming someone in a red/purple state for staying there is just not helping.

Exactly.

I want the person down the street, who is barely able to pay rent and afford groceries on their min-wage job to instead be able to be secure. I want them to have housing, clothing and nutrition. Free stuff for others, not for me.

I’m quite happy to pay for that ‘free’ stuff in the form of taxes, as long as my tax dollars actually go to it instead of a billionaire’s scorecard.

I’m no longer at my computer where typing is easy. I thank all of you for responding in good faith, and I’ll be reading the various links. Thanks for engaging with me.

Okay. My method doesn’t work. We can’t reform the system from within.

What does?

What’s your perfect solution? How do we get there?

I’m honestly curious. I’m pissed at the status quo, and don’t know how to make things better with my limited personal power.