The US doesn’t need its own troops there if the IDF acts on their behalf and they get to claim deniability. There’s only a thin veil of secrecy, you can see through it in the ridiculous ways they’ve been allowed (and supported) in infiltrating US politics. Hell you can’t even be a school teacher in Texas without pledging support to Israel.

Thats where you stop considering apparently, instead of accepting the grim reality that voting isn’t going to save us as neither party wants to and that we need to do the actual, hard work of forming a new party and demanding more.

We have a right wing and a centralist party, we need a left workers party, not 2 more centralists between the center and the right. That’ll just be 2 more right wing parties

More than that, Isreal is basically a forward opperating base of the US in the middle east. They’re just the US with Groucho Marx glasses on, our sock puppet for genocide and imperialism.

Exactly. Remember this when people claim we can turn the Democratic party with progessive candidates. The progressive candidates are the ones always turned by the Dems, not the other way around. It’s their MO.

They are humans like anyone else and they should never be placed on a pedestal or treated like they’re above criticism for being on your team.

Then stop doing that. You have to hold them on a pedestal to even consider them on your team, since their actions speak much louder than words

The both sides are the same argument denies the reality that voting in your best interest and gaining incremental progress for society is a better alternative than sitting by while the world burns around you.

You fundamentally misunderstand. What you are arguing for is sitting around while the world burns, while feeling like you did your part for merely voting. What I’m saying is that voting is not enough, especially when the people you have to vote for don’t actually want to make things better, and even under their control shit gets incrementally worse, not better. So sitting around and just handing your vote to the people who aren’t helping, especially when they know they’ll get your vote just for being slightly better than the other guy, is actually doing less than nothing. Politicians have to earn your vote, thats the foubdation of democracy. When politicians don’t have to earn your vote because you’ll vote for them by default, they’re not actually concerned with doing anything for the voters. That’s not Democracy.

Saving your support for an infallible leader who checks all your boxes, gains power and rescues society while somehow appeasing the majority and yet never compromising or screwing up something important, is a fantasy at best.

Thats a huge straw man. Just because all options are currently fucked and not worth standing with doesn’t mean you need an infalliable one to be acceptable. Just that the current ones are far below acceptable. “I don’t want to eat either entrees you brought me, because they’re both piles of dog shit, even if one is filled with razor blades.” “Nothing’s good enough for you man unless its a perfect 5 star 5 course meal and you’re gonna starve unless you eat the dog shit”. You see how absurd that thought process is? It comes from fear.

Not to mention that ELECTIONS AND POLITICIANS WILL NOT SAVE US. It’s not about voting in just the right way, we have to go out and demand, its the only way rights have EVER been won. Voting is just scratching the surface of political activisim, but its treated like the be all end all and people use it as an excuse to not do the real work.

government is composed of people. People are flawed. If you’re looking to flawed people to create your ideal society rather than strategizing how to do the best you can with what you have in front of you/working towards an improved future, you’re going to be spinning your wheels for all eternity waiting to be rescued.

This one is what you’re advocating for though, just voting for not only flawed people, but people working activley against you, all while sitting back like you did your part for checking a box on a ballot.

Out of curiosity though, what is your ideal government/who is your ideal leader, worthy of your support? Who can you point to as an example of “that person/government that got it all right, and if we could just have a government or politicians more like them, everything would work itself out.”

Edit: Surely somebody must come to mind? Bc if not this whole post kinda seems like a lot of bullshit

Yes your post does kinda seems like a lot of bullshit, but I’m still happy to take time to explain. There isn’t an example yet, we need to demand better, that’s my whole point. Merely voting in politicians and trusting them to fix everything isn’t going to work, there’s no winning that way. I dunno what goalpost shift you are attempting, but just beacuse I’m accuratley pointing out that our current system and represntation is far from actually working for the people doesn’t mean I have to have a fully flushed out and perfect example of an alternate for my critisms to be valid. That’s ironically what you were trying to accuse me of about “saving support for an infalliable leader”, but is actually your projection.

No, the new deal only came to be after violent protests, and was largely a betrayal of labor groups because it gave a much watered down version of what was actually demanded, all while Roosevelt broke the strike he promised to support while campaigning. Read “Labor’s Giant Step Forward” by Art Preis if you want a more detailed accpunt

History has shown Dems to be playing the role of wolf in sheeps clothings for over a century lmao, what are you talking about? Even the “New Deal” of FDR was actually used to placate the actual demands of the labor movement, after he promised to help if they campaigned for him, and then turned around and outlawed their strikes and busted them when he got in office. From Obama promising to close GitMo but actually accelerating it and the use of drone strikes, Biden letting Roe V Wade be overturned despite Dems for decades running on codifying it, hell even Bill Clinton is resposible for the implementation of private prisons to basically make slavery legal again.

Dems are not your friends. Sure MAGA is the BBEG, but Dems are all the henchmen with different colored shirts you need to fight on the way. They enable and support the BBEG. Sure one is worse, but the other one is still trying to fuck you over too, they’re not your ally. And to realize that none of the parties are here for you is a scary thought, and many people want to desperatley push it away for the safe and comfortable thought that you have a champion to fight for you and you’re not alone. Well you’re not alone, but its not the Dems by your side, it’s the other workers. And unfortunatley that means you’ll have to get your hands dirty directly, but turning away from the truth won’t make it easier.

Nah they just rolled out the carpet and set up the barricades to allow it

Your rights are political. I get the point of the post, that people shouldn’t need to validate their existence, but politics is how you fight for that right. The desire to avoid politics is the advantage of your enemy.

I think I’d be changing the punch part, and not the Nazi part

Long enough to know that’s bullshit. You sure you aren’t just browsing a specific instance? I browse the all variant cause I want to see what people are thinking broadly without getting in too much of an echochamber, and I don’t think I’ve seen even one.

Are there any peole actually advocating to do nothing? How many accelerationists do you really think there are?

I mean, you don’t have to make up a theoretical terrorist cell who is invading. That’s just I.C.E. themselves, they are terrorists.

Nah thats capitalism buddy, at its core. The point is the rigging, in order to profit as much as possible. Corporate Oligarcy is the ineveitable outcome of capitalism, because capitalism creates its own destruction after a certain point of wealth consolidation, after which point the system can no longer function as is after all the cannabalizing of its own sectors.

Best thing an I.C.E. agent can do is kill themselves. Because then they would have killed a Nazi.

The democratic party is literally designed to squelch any kind of true progressivism. They are funnel any movements into “voting blue no matter who” and make people like AOC say bullshit things like “Biden is working tirelessly for a ceasefire” which we know if bullshit after Biden aides admitted they did not.

We need to make ourselves heard, aboslutley. And waiting for the elections is a recipie for failure indeed. But you say all these things about registering for democratic primaries or canvasing or “changing the party” without realizing people who have been paying attention have been trying that for decades. The democratic party is designed to maintain the status quo, and be as big of a roadbump as possible to actual workers demands so that they can keep campaigning on being better than the GOP. We are not reforming the democratic party when its whole goal for decades is to trap people trying to demand actual reform.

We need to make demands, absolutely. But we need to throw off the shackles of thinking the prison guards are going to help us escape. We need a new party, not a new Democrat.

Reply with “So what is the point of you?”

Especially if they tried to blame objectors